Episode #013
Sendy Mom Ans Brouwer, on living in a Holland during World War II, raising children with faith, and living Internationally
Meet My Guest:
Ans Brouwer has lived a remarkable life. She is 81 years old but doesn’t look a day over 65. She acts like she’s about 25 sometimes and is a joy to be around. I love talking to her because she surprises you. She likes to say things that are unexpected and is unapologetic about what she believes and who she is. She was born in the Netherlands during World War II but grew up not knowing hunger. As the oldest grandchild of a large family, they never let the baby be hungry while everyone around her were suffering from the Hunger Winter in the Netherlands. I am excited to help share her story today. I know a lot about Ans. We met in person the day before I got married and she became my mother in-law. You are about to see how lucky I am to have her in my life. Ans is spunky, full of energy, positive, cheerful, and hopeful. Ans is sendy as you will find out because of the sacrifices she has made for her family, her faith, and her personal growth. This is what a real Mormon housewife looks like!
Mentioned in the Show:
The Coffee Bean – Jon Gordon and Damon West
Subscribe and click the link for a free PDF download!
Turning Point – The Bomb and The Cold War
Act of Oblivion – Robert Harris
Three Ordinary Girls – Tim Brady
Full Transcript:
Ans: I told him, I said if you don’t stop this, I’ll take my clarinet and hit you over the head with it.
He sat down while I stood and he started touching my legs.
After only a few weeks, I thought, what’s wrong with these men? So I just turned around and I said, you probably think you got this job because of your artistic abilities? and he said, yeah. I said, well, you didn’t. because your predecessor touched his students and he was thrown out. never, never touched me again, I was sick of it.
Becky: Well, welcome to the Sendy Mom podcast. I’m really thrilled to be here today. I’m going to introduce my guests. So this is Ans Brouwer and she has lived a remarkable life. is 81, 81 years old and, but she really doesn’t look a day over 65.
And she acts like she’s about 25 most of the time or maybe she feels that 14 or 14. Yeah, sometimes. Right. We all take those times in our lives and we head back to them. Sometimes three. Yeah, that’s right. She likes to say things that are unexpected. And that’s why I love talking to her and she’s pretty unapologetic about who she is.
She was born in the Netherlands during World War II, but grew up not knowing hunger because she was the oldest grandchild of a large family and they made sure that the baby never went without food, even during the hunger winter in the Netherlands. I’m excited to help her share her story today. I know a lot about Ans.
We met in person the day before I got married and became her daughter-in-law.
Ans: It was too late then to complain.
Becky: By then I was stuck and I’m super lucky that I am and you guys are all about to find out what a lucky daughter-in-law I am. It’s the truth. am so, I feel so glad that I married into this family. And you know, sometimes when you have
because my husband grew up in the Netherlands, obviously. And sometimes you have cultural differences. everything that I have gained from this family, I’m going to get emotional, but everything I gained from this family has added to who I am. And I appreciate that. So Ans is spunky. She’s funny. She’s witty. She has
She’s positive, she’s cheerful. There are so many good things about her and you’re going to find out about who she is. She’s super Sendy because you’re going to find out kind of some of the sacrifices she has made for her family and for her faith and for her own personal growth. And it’s pretty incredible.
with that, I’m going to go ahead and let her kind of give a little bit more information about her growing up I want to know what
What inspired you to take risks when you were a child? Like to explain kind of your childhood, some of the risks that maybe you took. mean, you grew up in the 40s and 50s. You were young and child then, and it was a much different world then. And on top of that, you were in the Netherlands. So I want you to kind of tell a little bit about what your childhood looked like.
Ans: Well, first of all, I was lucky enough to live around the corner like
two minutes away from my maternal grandparents, my mom’s family, and she’s the second of 11 children, and she was the only one married. Her older brother was killed during the first days of the war by the paratroopers that came in and shot him down. So that devastated my grandfather especially.
And he never, I don’t think he ever got over it. Cause he sort of neglected, he had 11 children, but he neglected like the other boys. I heard, but later on I saw too, that he was just devastated by that. And anything German, you couldn’t talk about it. The hatred he had for so long.
And the funny, well, ironic thing is my husband, Frans does a lot of family history and all his family is German. My grandfather even has a German last name. His grandmother, the whole family is from Germany. I thought it was ironic.
Becky: Well, we’re all, we’re all humans when it comes down to it, right?
And it’s unfortunate that some humans make choices that devastate other people.
Ans: Yeah, he was, yeah. was, my grandmother was deaf. She got more deaf by every childbirth. Probably now they could do something about it. But when I was growing up, she was deaf. Very deaf.
For that reason, we all speak loud.
Becky: is that why?
Ans: Yeah. Because you think she doesn’t hear it, but you think if you speak loud, she’s going to hear you. She’s not, of course. And we also spoke very…
Becky: Articulately?
Ans: Yes, because she was a lip reader. So if they wanted to hide something from her, they just mumbled.
And it made her really mad. And I can remember her getting so upset because it’s this big family and my grandfather wasn’t always nice to her. So he joined in with them. And he had a big mustache. So she couldn’t tell what he was saying. she would know that it was about her. And then I’d seen her pick up dishes and throw.
Becky: because she was so angry.
Ans: She was so angry.
Now you think, wow, what a terrible thing to do. was very nice, very loving to me because my mom was tough like her dad. So if I was in trouble, she was the rescuing angel. She always rescued me. And then I would go (stick out my tongue) to my mom behind my mom’s back.
Becky: Sticking your tongue out at her.
Ans: Okay. Yeah, I’m gone. I’m out of here. Grandma’s rescued me again.
She rescued me. also because my mom and well, of course my dad was taken for forced labor to Germany when I was just a year. a year old.
Becky: Yeah. I mean, we could like segue to that story because that’s a great story. That shows like he was pretty Sendy in escaping from the war camp.
Ans: My dad.
Becky: Your dad. Yeah.
Ans: That’s a funny story. Yeah. Because he was taken to work and then at night they slept in the barracks. And so he was there with people from the neighborhood because
In 1944, they all had to stand in the streets at a certain time. And then they would be marched to the trains and go to Germany. So he’d been there and the war had already ended, but they didn’t know that because in Germany they wouldn’t tell him.
The other people that were taken were all trained in back home. So Well, the men were all brought back and they, so the whole neighborhood was rejoicing, but my dad wasn’t with them.
Yeah. So my mom thought the worst, but what had happened was him and a mate had decided to escape.
After they were going to be released. They didn’t know. So they walked from, I think he was around Bremen, Bremenhaben, which is a long way from Rotterdam, Schiedam, where we lived. they, him and his mate, they just…
hid in the forests and try not to be seen, got some water and milk from the farmers. So, but then when he got home, there was a big party because there was no more war. But he walked back, I guess, on one shoe and one slipper because he lost his shoe or something. But anyway.
Yeah, that was the brave thing my dad did.
Becky: Even though he didn’t have to.
How long was he in the work camps?
Ans: one and a half years because they were taken in November or October of 44. And the war ended where we were in May.
Becky: Okay.
Ans: 45.
Becky: yeah. So like in a year and a half. So how did you, how old were you at that point?
Ans: Well, I was born in 43. So when he left, I was just barely over a year. Okay. Wow. Cause I’m from August, a year and a few months.
Becky: So you think about that dad being gone for a year and a half during these, you know, pivotal times when you’re learning how to walk and learning how to talk and everything.
Ans: Yeah. And that’s where my silly family comes in because my mom in 44, my 44, 45 was the hunger winter. And so my mom and her dad went with a bike with no tires because the Germans had taken all of that. So they went into the countryside with thousands of other women.
mostly women because the men were gone and old people, they went to the farms to try to buy like flour, food. They buy bags of food to make maybe even some pancakes out of water and flour. So while she was gone, I was left with my
mom’s siblings. Okay. Yeah. And that’s where they taught me how to dance on the table and did all.
Becky: You were the performer. That’s where you got it all from. You like to the center of attention all the time.
Ans: I was because I was the only baby and the mother wasn’t around. Father wasn’t around and these aunts.
Becky: Yeah. And grandma can’t hear. So your aunts really raised you.
Ans: They raised me for like half, like for that time. and a half or whatever. Well, that time my mom was gone. She came back and she went back again. They lived through terrible times, I guess. But I wasn’t aware of it.
Becky: No, yeah, you were always taken care of.
Ans: Because they boiled sugar beets to bring the, and then when they boiled them, the sugar would come to the top and that’s…
what they fed me first. Yeah. Yeah. I was raised on sugar beet sugar. And that’s when you get high. Yeah. You give your kids sugar. a lot.
Becky: That’s great. So tell me a little bit more about some of the things that you learned from them.
about taking risks and about, or even after the war, know, I know, yeah, know there’s, you know, like as you, you’re in grade school and things like that. And I know riding on the barges down the canals, can tell me a little bit about that.
Ans: That was when I was about 12, I think, or 11, 12, because I was in secondary school. secondary school was right around Crosstown.
And of course we didn’t have school buses. We walked with a group of kids and got into mischief. And then we said, wow, this is really sucks. We have to walk all this way. Look at all these boats coming by that go right past our school. If we can get on one of those boats and get off where our school is, we don’t have to walk.
Becky: That was actually really smart.
Ans: Yeah. So we jumped off the bridges, the draw bridges when they came under at a certain point. And so the barges, middle part was full of mud that they dug out of the canals to keep them open. And they brought it out to where, near the sea where they put that mud to make new land.
Becky: right. Yeah. Reclamation like land reclamation in Holland.
So, and that was a long way out.
Ans: That was near the sea, North Sea.
Becky: Right.
Ans: So we got on every day and there was just a small platform at the back. There was a small platform at the front with the driver or whatever you call him. And then two narrow paths on the sides where he could walk. They were very narrow.
And so we jumped on the back and he would be yelling in the front for, and he would be, you can’t get to us because he had to stand there and steer that boat. And then he would come to a point where he almost touched the key. And that’s where we jumped off.
Becky: Very dangerous, honestly
Ans: Very dangerous. so, but we did that for quite a few days.
And so, then one of these guys, I don’t know if they’re all the same guys, because I couldn’t see their faces just yet. I don’t remember that. And so, this one day we’re jumping on, this is good. We come to our spot where we jump off, but he stays in the middle of the canal.
Becky: He was going to get you.
Ans: He was going to get us and we weren’t getting off.
It was warm. We were on that back of that barge all the way out to almost the North Sea. We didn’t, we usually went home for lunch in the Netherlands for a long lunch. Most people had a warm lunch. So we didn’t come home for lunch. Our parents got worried and we…
didn’t go to school in the afternoon. We never went to school the whole day.
Becky: Yeah. Did he bring you back?
Ans: Well, yeah, we got, they come back when it’s almost dark. can remember, like, cause it was probably in the winter or the fall when that happened. And it was almost dark and our parents were waiting at school. And that’s when he dropped us off this guy.
And was that the last time you ever that? That’s ever the last time because I was in so much trouble.
Becky: Yeah, there were some other things. There’s like, it, it ices over quite often.
Ans: yeah, that ices and we had the ponds because of that part was very low below, very much below sea level. So to drain all the land where they build around, they make all these ponds in the neighborhoods. It’s a drainage for the water. And so.
We have ducks in there and swans. And so in the winter time, when it freezes, they make a hole for the ducks and the swans and they have those they make little nests for the animals.
so they keep that…
part open, it’s quite a big thing. but then in the morning it would be frozen over depending on how cold it was, but it was very thin, course.
Becky: Thin ice. Okay.
Okay. So how deep is the water then?
Ans: Well It’s pretty deep.
Becky: Pretty deep. Okay.
Ans: To here, when I was small, smaller, well, I’m still small. Here, when you get in it. so then that thing was right in front of our school. So I was there with the guys, the boys, the girls didn’t do that. don’t think I always played with boys.
Becky: You’re kind of a tomboy.
Ans: they would,
you would.
Run over, try to run over that. Over that thin ice.
Yeah, that’s dangerous.
Yeah, you hear, kkkk. Wow. So I put my foot on it at one morning before school, like the others go, yeah, come on, you can do it. You’re only little. You can do it. Get on it. So I went on one step.
two step, and then, because it wasn’t far from the edge, so you do about three or four steps and you were on the other side, you see. One step, two step,
Becky: and then you fell in.
Ans: And I fell in, and it was cold, of course, very cold. So I tried to get out the wrong side where the ice was, because the other side was too much water.
And they all laughed and they, nobody helped me. Finally, one boy helped me out and I ran home and.
Becky: Learned not to. And what did your parents say?
Ans: Well, my mom thought my dad wasn’t home much. So he was usually playing out, well, playing music with his orchestra. So my mom, she didn’t know what to do with me. Yeah.
Becky: Yeah. You know, and, and at that point too, like.
in the 40s, 50s or whatever, there were, was just, we were just starting to realize, you know, that we can be taught how to be a parent, right? Before that, it was always, it was the hard,
Ans: the discipline,
Becky: discipline, right? And so I think that that’s the way that we, you know, and so you can’t really fault the way that she did it, because that’s just the way that they know,
Ans: and that’s how she was raised.
Becky: Yeah. you didn’t want to
parent that way. I know you didn’t parent that way.
Ans: no, no, because it was… The one thing I tell you what hurt me the most, not when my mom put me in that Harry Potter cupboard under the stairs because she couldn’t handle me. That’s when my Oma saved Rescued you. And I was there a lot. Yeah. And so…
But the one thing that she would punish me with was being silent. Give you the silent treatment.
Becky: And that was the worst for you.
Ans: That was the worst. That’s the worst. That’s why I did overly tell my kids, no, you can’t go to sleep without speaking to one another and say, you’re sorry. I think that’s where that came from.
Becky: Probably.
Ans: Yeah. Because my sister and I slept upstairs.
There was a hallway and she came out. I would be sitting on those stairs. Ma, ma. And she would, I think she did it deliberately. She’d come out of that living room to that kitchen.
Becky: and just ignore you.
Ans: And ignore me the whole time. And I finally dragged myself up. Yeah. See, and I was.
bad a lot of times. You know, yeah. So that’s the worst thing. And
Becky: so if you don’t know how to handle a child, you know, that is maybe a little bit wild, or that, you know, like, I mean, what are some resources that that you can go to to help you to get better at that?
Ans: Now you mean,
Becky: well, I think that maybe even then, you know,
Was she part of any kind of a group?
Ans: no, no, she didn’t have a of the sisters, all the sisters who had said,
Becky: yeah, well see, and that’s the thing is like you surround yourself with people that you’re going to be like, right? And I know later in your life, that’s what you found. You found some people who could help you to recognize how you could change and how you could be a better, you know, a more loving mother and
Ans: showing it.
Becky: Cause I to say your mother loved yeah, for sure.
Ans: But she didn’t know how to show it.
Becky: Right.
Ans: Not even to my dad, maybe to my younger siblings. Cause I’m the older one. I was four years older than my sister. So I guess she’s learning. Yeah. She must have learned. Yeah. And I know she was loving.
Becky: With your oldest child.
I mean,
Ans: it’s hard.
Becky: is very hard, you know, like, because they’re paving the way I feel so bad for these oldest children who have to really pave this way. And, and, you know, they, they get all of the parents, you know, struggles and trying to figure out how this is supposed to be done. And so there’s a lot of compassion that I have for oldest children. And I consider myself one of the oldest children. mean, you’re two. Right. Yeah. And, and I know
And I also have a lot of compassion for my mother, you know, who did the same thing because I’ve been through it too and I understand what it’s like to just like, okay, well, let me try this. But I tell you what, it is that network of people that you have around you that changes you. Robert was telling me the story of this man who he had done a lot of, it made him a lot of bad choices, ended up in jail.
He was, you he’d gotten into drugs, things like that, was stealing. And he got into, he was in jail. And before he went into jail, his mother and father, you know, his mother gave him a hug. she said, I don’t want you to get any tattoos. And I don’t want you to join any gangs while you’re there. And he thought, well, I got to be a part of it. You know, everybody’s a part of a gang. If you’re not part of a gang, then you’re going to get, you know, beat up, whatever. You won’t be protected. But he,
got into a cell with this man, this older man, who he told this to and he said, and he gave him, said, okay, you have a choice. You can either be a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean. And he said, what happens when you put a carrot into a pot of boiling water?
It softens, right? And it gets kind of mushy, right? What happens if you put an egg in the boiled water? It gets hard. It gets very hard, right? So you could become hardened. But what happens if you put a coffee bean into boiling water? You get a drink. You get coffee, right? It influences, and you could talk about it, know, cocoa bean, whatever, you know, it influences everything around you.
And I think that’s a really beautiful analogy for what happens when with who you surround yourself with. Right. And so you look at your mother who was surrounded by her sisters who had been, know, you know, it’s just generations of, you know, gossiping. And that was joy to them. I mean, that really was joy to them. But it was also, you know, and and also she was the oldest on top of that.
And so she had no older sisters to show her like how to show love. And her mother going deaf, I mean, so you can have a lot of empathy or compassion for your mother for the things she to go through.
Ans: And she didn’t have a really fun life because my dad was gone three months at a time and then he came back and he went for a couple of weeks and then he had all his…
friends and
Becky: yeah. Tell us what your dad did.
Ans: Well, he was a musician. He first started out at a symphony orchestra, but then because of the war he got into, they organized him and his friends, fellow musicians organized a big band because it was big.
so he played for the Allied forces First in the Netherlands and then he played in Germany a lot where the soldiers were with the big bands and He played in big Hotels that had matinees and my mom would take me there
And so, yeah, so when he was home, they were practicing. He played in a big circus, Circus Krona, you know, when they had the big bands on top of the, when you came in, the circus on top was a big
Becky: I didn’t know that. I’ve never seen that before. That’s interesting.
Ans: well, in Europe. That’s what they did. Yeah, and they, so he would travel with them also.
And he played the drums, he played the drums and he, I tell you what, I admire him because when they went to Australia and he was already older, he didn’t have all these people around him. He surrounded himself with people that played music and formed this orchestra.
that practiced down their basement every week and played for the old folks homes all over Brisbane. mean, he did that until he died. Yeah. Because, yeah.
Becky: And he wanted you to be a musician too. Yeah. So you want to tell a little bit about that, that experience like, like conservatory?
Ans: I was supposed to be pretty good, I had to, my dad steered me towards playing the clarinet because that would be nice.
Becky: Yeah. And then be in the band with him and
Ans: yeah. Yeah. Well, I tried it. I think I played with him once in the band, but it wasn’t for me. I was more into classical. So that was fine. But the experiences that I had with
Two of my teachers weren’t very nice.
Becky: Tell me how you were Sendy in that, in that instance. because you kind of stood up for yourself.
Ans: yeah. Cause the first one, well, I, I had my private class in a small room. They were all the small rooms in the building in a small room. And so you can imagine you’re sitting there playing and this man is teaching you, but he comes closer and closer and
start bumping into your tiny breasts because you’re still very young. And you think, first you think that’s an accident. But then it became not an accident and you knew and I, that’s so scary. It is so scary. So what happened was I told him, said
If you don’t stop this, I’ll take my clarinet and hit you over the head with it. But then I started avoiding going to my classes. And so that showed on my report. And I was there on the scholarship. I needed to keep high marks.
Becky: I think there’s a lot of people that could probably relate to your experience there, but…
Ans: Maybe in other fields. Yeah.
this guy has your future in his hands.
Becky: So what do you do?
Ans: Well, I told my girlfriend, I had a girlfriend that we played in a municipal band together. And so I said, I don’t want to go to that class anymore. This man, he, it’s scary. So she told her parents. so then, because I was in deep trouble and I still didn’t tell my parents,
Cause I didn’t have that relationship. So they told my parents, well, that was it. My dad went straight to the school and I was lucky enough that one of the girls that worked in the office at the school had had the same experience with that guy and stopped playing. And so that’s when he got
demoted, he couldn’t teach anymore. And then I get another one from Rotterdam. He was from Den Hague Philharmonic Orchestra. They were pretty good. Then I got this younger guy, but four kids. And he, he sat down while I stood and he started touching my legs.
After only a few weeks, I thought, what’s wrong with these men? So I just turned around and I said, Mr. I won’t say his name. Do you think you probably think you got this job because of your artistic abilities? don’t know. Something like that. said, and he said, yeah. I said, well, you didn’t.
because your predecessor touched his students and he was thrown out. never, never touched me again, I was sick of it. I was just, and later on I found out that he, my friend who played the oboe, he got into a relationship with her.
She was probably a year older than I am. Here you are, 17 years
Becky: 17 and he’s about 30 something year old. Old man.
Ans: I mean, for him, I went to his home and he had a room with a sliding door and his wife was right in the next room.
Becky: Crazy.
Ans: Well, I Anyway. Is this good for this?
Becky: This is good because I think it’s important for people to understand that
when these sorts of things happen, it’s important to say something about it. And sometimes it’s hard to recognize when these things are happening and it can, you can have some trauma from those experiences. Well, you do. I mean, it is trauma, right? But the way that you responded to it, I think is the important thing.
So understanding that you can say something about it and feeling empowered. And I’m also thinking about the way that your dad responded when he found out. Did that help to develop some trust between the two of you?
Ans: yes, because then they knew what was happening. Yeah. And so, yeah.
Becky: So often we get in this battlefield with our children.
you know, where, you know, we’re just trying to push them so hard and we’ve, have all these expectations for them. Right. And so we, we push them away because of that. And so, so there has to be some sort of a balance where we are showing that we do trust these children. And that’s where we show infinite love and support and cheerleading. And that’s really where our children will rise to the occasion. When we,
express this what they are doing really well and when we defend them. Yes. Fearlessly defend them. they did. Yeah. Yeah. And even love them when they do things that are wrong.
Ans: Yeah. and they do. Yeah. Of course.
Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I think they probably thought.
where did we get a child like that? But they probably weren’t the same.
Becky: But they loved you and you can see that, right? And they just, they didn’t know how to express it properly, you know, but they, know, there was a lot of love in your family and there still is because I know that you’re really close to your siblings still and you guys talk all the time.
Ans: Yeah, good.
Becky: Yeah, wonderful people.
Becky Brouwer (31:44)
We’re about halfway through the podcast. I wanna remind you that this podcast is also on our YouTube channel at Sendy Mom. You can find our website at sendymom.com and on Instagram at sendy.mom. Please subscribe, review and share this episode with people you think might need this message. Next main episode, I’m gonna be talking to my really good friend, Angela Johnson.
She began sculpting after pivoting from her career in opera. She’s got a gorgeous voice. I’ve always been really impressed with her depth of knowledge and spirituality and her courage too.
She has just finished her life’s work, the Tree of Life Garden at Thanksgiving Point in Utah. It’s an incredible labor of love that contains over 200 unique life-size sculptures. She’s also the mother of four and grandmother of 20 wonderful grandchildren. I’m really excited for you to get to know her better.
So the Sendy spotlight this week is on Hannie Schaft
she was recommended by Ans as a really Sendy woman. So as a teenager, she and two of her classmates, Truus and Freddie Oversteegen joined the resistance, smuggling Jewish children to safety, sabotaging enemy plans, and even confronting Nazis face to face.
Their unwavering courage, sharp wit, and commitment to freedom make them heroes of the underground, but their stories remain kind of lesser known. So tune in next week to hear how these remarkable women defy opression inspire the nation, and show that bravery really knows no age or gender. So I have a gift for anyone who subscribes to the Sendy Mom website. In addition to receiving updates on new articles to the website sent directly to your email,
You will also receive exclusive access to Ans’s life history as a free download. There are several other downloads that are going to become available to members only. So if you’d like to go and subscribe, it’s totally free. Just go to sendymom.com today and subscribe there.
So it’s currently making its way around the neighborhood as a hard copy. So don’t wait for the hard copy. Read it on your device today. And now back to my interview with Ans
Becky Brouwer (34:10)
okay, so let’s kind of move on to…
why you went to Australia because this you know, this moving family and you, I think I’ve said it before on this podcast that we have actually lived in Australia before and lived close to, Ans’s family, which was a real blessing for us to get to know them a lot better. Yeah.
Ans: Well, there was my parents, of course, been through the war, second world war. And so in the fifties, the
Cold War heated up. Yeah. And so my parents were not very happy about that. They were scared. Yeah. Because they thought, do we have to go through this again? And so my dad, and it was winter, winter always is a miserable time, especially when it is wet and dark. Yeah. And so he had a friend.
musician who had played the piano on the cruise ships. And he’d been to Australia, to the ports of Sydney. his sister and her family actually had moved to Australia.
Becky: the piano player’s sisters?
Ans: His sister. So they lived in Brisbane. So they got together every
week they came for coffee and cigars and whatever, playing and talking. And so that’s where they developed this plan. So maybe we could go there. it’s so beautiful. The beaches, they’re beautiful. The palm trees are there. The weather is wonderful and that all sounds really good. It’s far away from Europe, far away from the…
Cold War. Now they started talking about that, I’d say, in October.
We were on a boat to Australia in May of next year. Everything was gone. They packed everything in what they could take in a crate. I had to just go with them.
Becky: Yeah. How old were you?
Ans: I was 18.
Becky: 18. okay. Tell me about the timeline when you met dad.
Ans: I met him before that.
He was 21, so he had just finished his military service. And so he really, really liked me.
Becky: Clearly.
Ans: Clearly, because we went for walks and talks all the time.
Becky: You met him at Christmas time. Was that that Christmas?
Ans: No, was the Christmas before.
Becky: Okay, all right.
Ans: We, he heard all these stories and he thought, what? She’s going to Australia. That’s pretty far. So he went and got himself ready and he ended up being on the same ship. My dad wasn’t very pleased.
Becky: So he was hoping to get rid of this guy.
Ans: Because he wasn’t a musician. So that was the clue.
Becky: Isn’t that interesting? Yeah.
Ans: That’s the clue. And so, yeah, he was, we all ended up in the same hostel area where you get, come when you are an immigrant.
Becky: So did he know he was on the boat with you?
Ans: Yes. yeah. Yes. Yeah. But he ended up with single guys in another line in another bungalow. And we were with them.
Families, okay.
Becky: So no he was in the same in the same
I see.
Ans: in the same area. It was in the same hostel Okay, it’s a huge area. It’s actually where the Now they have a jail there. I think
like it’s on Wacol Yeah, okay
Just before the Wacol station. that area and they had the barracks there
It was horrible. Because you had to have to go to a community kitchen, community bathrooms. I thought, and all these people, and we got there and it was like a recession and all these Dutch people that had been there already a year in that hostel were just griping and…
Becky: wow. did everybody think they had made a mistake coming?
Ans: The whole bunch, a whole lot of them and stayed there and saved so they could go back. But my mom, being my mom, being my mom said, we’re not going to do that. We’re going to stay here. We made this decision. We’re going to stay here and make it. So they actually
The other people stayed in that hospital a long time. They went and looked in the papers, saw a house in the Gap where no Dutch people lived. Because she says, I’m not going to Inala. I could have stayed in Holland there, all Dutch there. Nope. So she went to the Gap and they rented a place there.
Becky: That’s pretty Sendy Just, you know, like, because you look at that and there are a lot of communities that
they wanna stay together, because it’s comfortable, right? But to go to a place, and this is how I’ve always believed too, let’s go and live among the people and learn from them, because how are you gonna be able to grow if you just stay among the people that you know?
Ans: It was the best thing they ever did, because my mom had never worked outside of the house, and my dad was looking for, he found a job, and then
up the street from and next to the high school was an old couple that wanted like somebody to come and take care of them for a few hours a day. And she hardly spoke English. Like she got that job. But these people lived in the, their family owned land in the gap. The roads were named after them. So they…
liked my mother so much that when a little house came for sale they said you’re going to buy that because it’s right close to us close to us
and my dad said no, no, my mom says yes. Yes. Yes
Becky: Well, and then then you you got married while you were in Australia. Yeah
And I mean, we can tell a little bit of Dad’s story because I just think that it’s kind of amazing how he was able to survive because he didn’t speak the language either.
Ans: Not much.
Becky: And he he tried to work out in the outback.
Ans: He built water tanks with this Dutch company. Yeah. But when there was rains, they didn’t have work. It was hard.
couldn’t go out so he wouldn’t get any money and he still had to pay his rent, And so he was desperate.
Becky: Yeah. So what did he do?
Ans: Well, he had five pounds left in his pocket. And he thought, well, I have to pay my rent next week. What am I going to do? So he was walking.
Becky: This is before you got married, right?
Ans: Yeah, that was before we got married. And so,
He was walking past a wholesale fruit markets. And he saw all these people go in their crates of apples and pears and whatever fruit. And he walked past it and then something he said later, something told him to go in there and buy a case of apples. So he…
bought a case of apples for two pounds and he had no car and he put it on his shoulder it’s unbelievable because he should have him here and he put it on his shoulder and went door to door in the neighborhood closest to Roma Street there and you know how the roads are yeah they’re like
yeah lots of hills
no no footpaths
just grass on the side. The houses were built on stumps. So you had to, in order to knock on somebody’s door, had to climb these stairs, knock on the door and then wait. But he sold that case of apples.
And so he thought in a few hours he sold that case of apples and now he had double. He thought… He did that day in day out until he could buy a little car.
Yeah. And then he set up a little grocer stand and everything.
Becky: Yes. And was that after you guys were married?
Ans: Yeah. No.
Now he bought a utility truck, like a truck. He built things so he put the cases on and they said, can you bring this? Can you bring that? So we had a whole neighborhood that waited for him. So we had clients and then he wanted to start a grocery store, but didn’t have any money.
then that was sad. there was a drought. Then the fruit became really expensive. So that tanked his…
His grocery business.
Becky: business, yeah.
at some point you decided you needed to move back to Holland.
Ans: Yeah, because it was very difficult.
Becky: Yeah. So you can tell a little bit about your story about joining the church and things like that.
Ans: So we already had friends before we were married. That was the family that Frans worked for first building the kettle dips and the water tanks in the bush. They were Dutch people.
They had a daughter and they, she dated a Dutch guy who was an LDS, who was LDS. He had worked in the mines in Mount Isa, spent all the money he made on drink
The Australians love their pubs. So he was doing that until the missionaries found him. And so he became LDS, or a Latter-day Saint. was baptized. And he was dating this girl. So the parents did not like, and then they told us stories about the Mormon church, like, whoa.
We thought we’d never join them. so then this fellow.
name was Jean Pierre, think. And the girl invited us to a barbecue in their church. Okay. The party. Okay. In the Kangaroo Point one. So because they were friends, we went and we thought it was the weirdest thing. Now we had the barbecue and then they had a gathering and then all people came and was in the recreational hall. Okay.
And so people came on stage and started saying things and everybody said, amen. and we, there was another couple that were Presbyterian and we fed on each other. Very weird. Well, anyway, then we didn’t go to church, of course. And then we got married
And this Belgian guy comes, Paul Moons, comes to the doors, also an immigrant. Graduated from the Leuven University selling pots and pans. That’s how it was. Yeah. Because he couldn’t get a job. So he’s coming to my house to sell me.
Rena wear, which is very expensive pots and pans. So I said, no, come on in. so, so we became friends. brought his wife, Maya, and we had a good time. We once a week, got together. Then one night they come and they say, listen, two American boys came to our house.
And they’re coming back. Can you come too? Because we don’t want to just be us there from this church. And we said, we know.
Becky: We’ve been there. I didn’t know that you’d already been.
Ans: We’ve been there. Yes, we’ll be there and we’ll set them straight. That was me saying that. We’ll set them straight. So missionaries came and showed this
very old like wound up little film. No, it was a film strip. Man’s search for happiness. And then the women were all like in the neon neon clothes that on that thing and they had the poofy and then and and I wasn’t into that at all. And I that should have turned me off because
I was more like a hippie. Yeah. And then, but the message reached my heart. Yeah. And that’s the miracle of it. That’s why I kept faithful all these years, even though I, when I had doubts or when I have wondered, that was the miracle because I should have
rejected that right there and then. Just because of that little film step, because that was like ridiculous. If you think of it in my mind.
Becky: Yeah. And I think that that’s important is memory is kind of important and remembering those times when you knew who you were and remembered when you knew what was right and then
being able to make decisions based upon those, those, those remembrances of what you’ve done in the past.
Ans: And then I was like, my mom, said to Frans we’re going to that church on Sendy. said, we are. Yep, we are.
Becky: It’s pretty Sendy.
Ans: So, then you, then, then it became difficult with your family though, because
they didn’t believe the same thing that you did and I think that was hard.
Becky: They thought it was a cult. I can understand it all.
Ans: Yeah and it’s taken a while but I think that they’ve come around to me. yes. know like because that’s the thing is like when somebody in your family decides to do something out of what you do as a family out of the normal
That’s very difficult, you know, like either direction, you know, there’s people that listen to this program that have children that, you know, leave the church, you know, whatever. it’s the same.
Becky: Yeah, exactly. Amy, not going that was hard. Sure. Now, I still, I love her. She’s a great human being.
Ans: And everybody has to make their own choices.
Becky: Everybody has to make their choices.
Ans: they’re on their own journey. And yeah, and I think part of being a good parent is is accepting the path your child is on and trusting them.
Ans: Yes, we do. But it’s hard. you can understand
Becky: why your family would understand it.
Ans: Not then. Now, of course, it’s been a while that
Becky: and honestly, there was a reason why you needed to go back to Holland
Ans: yes, maybe.
Although sometimes you wonder why this big journey.
Becky: You know, but I look at like my husband and the you know, the kind of influence that he had be growing up in Holland and I think it you know, you became a very nuclear family. yes, very. Because you had to really rely on each other. so yes. And you know, you can tell about what your family I mean, you have five children and
Ans: five children and
Our life, well, our new family, we’re all the church members. Because that’s where you spend your time.
Becky: Yeah, and you rely upon each other.
You rely upon each other and you love each other. Sometimes you hate each other just like in a family. But with some of these people, we still
Ans: are so close. Well, and that’s the nice thing about a community like anywhere, know, whether it’s a church community or, you know, where you need to find your people. And that’s kind of going back to what we talked about at the beginning, you know, is whoever you surround yourself with, that’s what you’re going to become. And so you have to be very careful about the people that you decide to spend time with because that’s going to have an influence on you. definitely. Definitely. Yeah.
Becky: 81 years is a long lifetime and you have done a lot of things in your life.
tell me about, the decision to move to America, how that came about.
Ans: Well, I guess that just was made for us too. I think because Ingrid, of course, married an American and that marriage didn’t last. So she was here struggling with her kids.
So we spent all our free time and money flying over here with our family to be together sometimes in the year. Then
Mark went on his mission to Florida. He wanted to stay here. Then Robert went on his mission to Florida. He didn’t really want to stay here. He wanted to go to school in Holland. But then when he was on his mission, companions or friends went to BYU. And that’s when he decided at the last minute that he may want to do that.
So otherwise he would have come back to Holland, but he wanted to stay. So in the meantime, we were transferred from the Netherlands to Geneva. So we had no home sort of a thing. then Amy, well, where was she going to go to college? we sent her. And then dad was being transferred to Germany.
And then we said, no, things happened. We might want to go and try, come over here. And that’s what we did.
Becky: Yeah. And, know, and that was hard to leave all of your friends behind. All
Ans: of your friends and your income. it was- Yes, that too. Very, very difficult decision. that was dad who made that decision because I said, no, when I looked at the figures,
I said, we cannot do that. And he said, yes, we can. Things will work out. It took And now we’re here. I was thinking like, what would we do if we were there in Holland? We’d have our… But they are all old now too.
Becky: Yeah.
all your friends, It’s true. And you were just telling me yesterday how it’s how nice it is to have like the great grandchildren come over and feel comfortable just running around your house.
Ans: Yeah. It wouldn’t have happened.
Becky: No, uh-uh. You wouldn’t have known him. So now you know all of your grandchildren and great grandchildren really well. So that’s beautiful. So you’re 81 years old.
and you’re still very vibrant and doing a lot of sendy things. You have to push yourself because after you retire, your kids are on their own, they’re doing their own thing. I think that it’s very natural to think, okay, I’m just gonna sit back and do nothing, right? And you do have to slow down and I have seen you definitely slow down, but at the same time, you have kept your mind very active.
Can you share like some of the things that you do that help to keep you active?
Ans: I learned how to play the piano from Becky.
Becky: And you just participated in another recital yesterday.
Ans: I was so
that was done.
Becky: But see, we’ve talked about this before, about that we just have to do it.
Ans: You have to.
Becky: though it’s hard and it’s scary and we make mistakes and then we have to. You have to. Yeah. Why do you think that is?
Ans: Otherwise you wither.
Yeah. There’s no purpose or you stiffen up or whatever. You become a zombie or I don’t know. You become something else.
Becky: Yeah. You have to just keep pushing yourself to do things. So what are some of the other things that you have done?
Ans: Well, I learned Spanish every day. Not that I can speak it, but it’s so helpful because I need to remember things. Yeah. And that’s.
very important. It’s just fun and it gives me a chance to sit in my chair and rest from baking a bread and making the bed and whatever else. don’t do much in those. So then, yeah, I read.
I do wordle in the morning. and I do the connections. Connections is harder. but then we, do it at the breakfast. So then dad can try to help me.
Becky: Yeah, but just keeping your mind active and, know, and having somebody to serve to is a good thing.
Ans: and Frans is like, had a hard time was dizzy this morning. So.
Becky: Yeah, he needs you.
Ans: He needs me.
Becky: Who would have thought?
Ans: Who would have thought?
Becky: I need you.
Ans: And I don’t mind it at all. we’re so blessed.
Becky: Yeah.
Ans: That we have our brains working, our memory. and I wrote my Life story. Yeah.
Becky: Yeah. And if you’re interested in that, can we, I mean, do you have somewhere online that you’ve published that or?
Ans: No.
Becky: Would you like to?
Ans: I don’t know if people like that. Lani Adamsons has.
One of my copies now I have to go to. Well, I maybe we should just publish it online so other people can read it. I can do that. We’ll work on that. OK, maybe that can be your next project.
Becky: That will be my next. That’ll be a nice project.
Ans: That would be a nice project. So and and dad’s got several of them too.
Becky: So I’m to go ahead and go to the rapid fire questions and see if there’s fire. Yeah, so you just have to answer quickly. No, you don’t have to answer that quickly. But they’re just like, I’d like to get into the lives of the people that I interview and just, you know, just see some some things that are important to them. And so what has brought you joy in the last 24 hours?
Ans: Well, waking up was healthy. That was really good. Coming here was nice. Then going to the little concert yesterday and feeling so blessed for not having to live in a… Assistant living home.
Becky: we performed at a little retirement.
Ans: Yeah, they were happy. have a memory care there too. Yeah, but we didn’t go there. No, we all wanted to go to the memory care unit so that nobody would remember. forgot how bad I played.
Becky: you played beautifully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re still learning things even at 81, right? Okay, what was the last TV show or documentary that you liked?
Ans: Well, the one about the Cold War we watched.
okay. the turning point. point. That’s it. point. It brought back these things we lived through when we were young. No, it is really good. It’s really interesting. Interesting. And I’m interested in that because…
Because of my family’s background, history during the war, what they all went through. Sure. Because I, there was so much hunger and pain that I remember my family going through. Yeah. And you feel for After the war even. Of course. Because we were on rations and stuff like that.
Becky: For a long time. Yeah. Yeah, that’s hard. Okay. What was the last really great book that you read?
Ans: Well, I’m reading one now, the Acts of Oblivion, but the last one that really was also about the war, it’s about the life of Hannie Schaft. is, and her friends, they were young adults, girls, that were in the Dutch resistance. And Hannie Schaft is the girl with the red hair that was…
executed in the dunes near her house by the Germans. And they are such brave, the bravery of these teenage girls because they were, and I feel with them because they were all about against injustice, inequality, inhumanity. And they were like,
Honey was a couple of years older than her two friends. They were like 17. They learned how to assassinate, to blow up stuff. It’s unbelievable. Inspiring. Inspiring because I thought these were women, young women, very sendy Because one of them gave her life.
And these girls had friends that were Jewish in their schools. They couldn’t come to school anymore. And they were so angry that they did something about them. the resistance. And I thought, yeah, there is a lot of inequality and a lot of injustice in the world. But these women and many like them all over the world.
It has to be an example to us to take a stand. love that. Yeah, maybe I need to highlight them in our Sendy Spotlight.
Becky: So what about a favorite vacation spot or somewhere you’d really like to go?
Ans: Well, I like to go to Holland, of course.
The beach.
Becky: Yeah. Any of the beaches.
Ans: The beach. Just sit on the beach. Yeah. That’s great. Hear the waves. Yeah. The sound of the waves. Yeah. So good. And we have a lot of that here.
Becky: I know. Sometimes, yeah, I miss the beach too. Yeah. Love the mountains.
Ans: The mountains are beautiful. They are beautiful. Yeah. But I was thinking that the other day, if people ask me why I love living here,
I won’t say it’s the mountains. It’s beautiful. It’s the people. It is the people. People are so kind and nice.
Becky: Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah.
Ans: So you can live anywhere.
Becky: You really can because it is about the people. It’s about the people. And you know, I’ve always said everywhere that we’ve lived has been the best place I’ve ever lived.
Ans: Because of the people.
Becky: Yeah. And you can find beauty everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah.
Except for maybe Nebraska. They have people there too. They do have people. You’re right. I’m so proud of They have sand people. All I do is drive through it.
Ans: know. It’s a long, long… Then think about the people that walked it. True. So there you go. know.
Becky: Yeah, I can be grateful for that. my goodness. Okay. Do you have any suggestions for the next thing that I can try? You. Me.
you’ve tried everything. Skydiving. Did you do scuba diving?
Ans: No, I haven’t done it yet. We’re working on it.
Becky: Do that. Yeah. That’s what I won’t do it because I’m scared of.
Ans: I am too. I’m a little claustrophobic. Yes. So it’s been a little bit. That’s hard. Yeah. So I’m going to have to kind of overcome that fear, but that is definitely something that I’m, I we’re working towards.
or maybe be an actress,
Becky: be an actress.
Ans: I think you can.
Becky: I tried that before. I think I’m just too like, I have too much energy. so I’m, you know, just walking. I don’t think I would like nuance it enough.
Ans: But you can be in a wild play.
Becky: I guess that’s true. They need all types, right? So no, I leave that to Ashlee That’s kind of her, her wheelhouse. So she’s the actress, the performer on stage. So I like this.
I like just having conversations with people.
Ans: Because I didn’t know what to expect. What am I going to say? But you do a good job.
Becky: good. yeah, we had a great conversation.
Ans: I hope they thought it was great.
Becky: I’m sure they will. So I mean, I think it’s really fun to just be like the spider on the wall when somebody’s talking. know, like it just makes it so much more relatable because like this is real. This is what we
you know, as women, need each other. Yeah. And that’s really what I’m trying to promote.
Ans: Well, yeah, it’s mostly the women that I like.
Becky: I know. We like the men too. Yeah, they’re okay. And I have had some that some people have said, Hey, when are you going to do the Sendy Dad podcast? I think I’ll leave that to somebody else. because I need to, know.
women. It’s, you know, and I love that, you know, men listen to this too. And because there, think there’s stuff to be had from all of these different conversations and,
Ans: and somebody else do the man.
Becky: Yeah, there you go. I told Robert he could do it.
Ans: I don’t think he will either.
Becky: But anyway, well, thanks for being with us today. This has been a really awesome conversation. You know, I obviously love my mother in law, she’s pretty, pretty cool. And I’ve learned a lot from her about
being vulnerable and about trying things that are hard because she’s done a lot of those hard things in her life. So thank you.
Ans: Thank you, Becky.
Becky: Yes, go out, do something hard and just send it.
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